Curse

Meat Axe · Jan 27, 2008, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Anet wanting people to play their MMORPG with other people? How ridiculous!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

Let me help explain.

MMO

MASSIVE Multiplayer Online.

I love this argument. It always seems that someone has to make this comment every time someone mentions that something is hard to do with heroes and henches.

GW is not simply a multiplayer game. It is advertised as a game that you can play solo with heroes and henches, and with other people. Why do some people seem to be so bothered by the fact that there are people out there that prefer to play with AI over random people. I am one such person. If my brother or my friends aren't on, I generally play by myself. Sometimes I'll do some stuff with my guild, but they are generally doing something I'm not really interested in doing at that point.

I haven't really had much trouble with dungeons or anything else in EotN so far. I've completed all the missions, and a few of the easier dungeons. All with heroes and henches. Sure, I haven't tried the hard dungeons, like Slaver's or Kathandrax, but I think they are entirely possible to do with AI, if a little harder.

MithranArkanere · Jan 27, 2008, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Well, for those that get in trouble while h/h, Anet added the consumables.
Those that do not like to play with others can farm to get those, then go even trough HM without trouble.

Biostem · Jan 27, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meat Axe

I love this argument. It always seems that someone has to make this comment every time someone mentions that something is hard to do with heroes and henches.

GW is not simply a multiplayer game. It is advertised as a game that you can play solo with heroes and henches, and with other people. Why do some people seem to be so bothered by the fact that there are people out there that prefer to play with AI over random people. I am one such person. If my brother or my friends aren't on, I generally play by myself. Sometimes I'll do some stuff with my guild, but they are generally doing something I'm not really interested in doing at that point.

I haven't really had much trouble with dungeons or anything else in EotN so far. I've completed all the missions, and a few of the easier dungeons. All with heroes and henches. Sure, I haven't tried the hard dungeons, like Slaver's or Kathandrax, but I think they are entirely possible to do with AI, if a little harder.

I look at it this way - GW gives you the *possibility* to team w/ other human players, while still providing a functional alternative. Given that we all have our horror stories about awful PUGs, is it really a mystery why so many like H/H-ing it?

On a side note, I feel bad for all the canines from the Pug breed, for all the hatred their name gets here.

Kook~NBK~ · Jan 27, 2008, 04:59 AM // 04:59

I've H/H'd every dungeon except Slavers & Shards (NM) without the need for consumables. When it comes time for me to do them in HM, I'll probably PUG them and have some treats to smooth over rough spots.

Dark Paladin X · Jan 27, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

in most missions and primary quests (as well as going to your destination): H/H
dungeons: varies (secret lair of the snowmen h/h, slaver exile, better with pugs.

Aera Lure · Jan 27, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

To the OP, I agree with others and say many of your problems described can be solved with a bit more careful flagging. Elusive Golemancer for example, you can just keep repositioning the flag among the other micromanaging you are doing, as well as careful target selection. Have done that H/H many times with no issues.

As for the MMO/multiplayer comment, well, Guild Wars has always had the option to play alone with AI. Heroes tilted the balance to make it rather easy to do so, especially if you also want to add consumables into the mix. The result is certainly less grouping. No denying that. Personally, I lament that evolution and prefer it back when you could use AI for most things, but it was sometimes tricky, hence people more often sought out groups for a few things.

arcanemacabre · Jan 27, 2008, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaky naughty

For instance look at The Elusive Golemancer quest. In that dungeon where you have to stay in the circle while walking along with that protective golem, with henchies I usually get party wipes because of their inability to keep up, and when one henchie died they all had to stop and res it while the golem was still moving. I finished this with very little trouble by making a desperate run for the end. With a PUG that would have been the simplest part of an already simple quest.

Everything you mentioned can be done with H/H, albeit some are a bit tough. The Golemancer mission is actually one of those things that are easier with H/H than with even one other teammate. The reason for this is because the H/H will stay glued to you the whole time, and follow your flags. Other players more often than not won't, and may even be misguided by lag, thinking the worker golem is somewhere it really isn't.

I did the mission 3/4 times with other players, and always had a few deaths there, making for a party wipe so we'd res to the other side. Everytime I do it H/H, I have no problems at all. As long as you stay directly in front of the worker golem to slow him down, you don't even need to flag, the H/H stay with you. You can easily make it to the other end safe and sound.

The others just involve some careful flagging and spreading out, though I do wish we could somehow make the henchies spread out, because they will still tend to die by AoE. We need some formation buttons, perhaps with either pre-made formations (like spread out, front/middle/back-line, crescent, etc.), or even create-our-own formations (such as assigning the teammate numbers to different points around your dot on the radar, and saving that as a formation). Would also be nice to enhance the H/H AI a bit more to scatter automatically from AoE, but without over-aggroing nearby groups.

Gattocheese · Jan 27, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Yep. I had no problem with the Elusive Golemancer. Most of Guild Wars is trial and error, even with a real group. You can look at your /deaths and see that this game doesnt have a biased opinion on dieing and trying again.

I also just did two dungeons in Slavers Exile with my H/H about a month or two ago. Wasnt too hard, just slower.

some guy · Jan 27, 2008, 05:57 AM // 05:57

The mentioned can be easily done with h/h. The golem 1, just body block the golem to let ur team heal. For the bug anti hench wurm, flag heroes apart, and flag the 4 henchies into a corner (but make sure they r still in spell and damage range) and there you go. I did those 2 all with h/h and did it no prob on the first time.

Default Name · Jan 27, 2008, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

Let me help explain.

MMO

MASSIVE Multiplayer Online.

How's this relevant? Isn't GWs a CORPG?

As in Cooperative Online Role Playing Game?

And cooperating with AI isn't cooperating?

Numa Pompilius · Jan 27, 2008, 06:37 AM // 06:37

ANet may be trying to kill soloplay, but the dungeons don't show it. Especially not Oolas Lab, which I did yesterday with H/H.

If the OP had complained about not letting H/H teams into the "elite" areas I'd have agreed that it sucked, but now?

/unsigned, and hope you get better soon!

Darkobra · Jan 27, 2008, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

Let me help explain.

MMO

MASSIVE Multiplayer Online.

Guild Wars is hardly massive.

Dronte · Jan 27, 2008, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

Let me help explain.

MMO

MASSIVE Multiplayer Online.

Come on people, GW is NOT an MMO. Its a CORPG- Competetive Online Role Playing Game

RotteN · Jan 27, 2008, 11:09 AM // 11:09

/care what GW "is"

I never had problems with H/H. As long as you know what you're doing and are able to use those 4 flags you'll be fine.

cloudbunny · Jan 27, 2008, 12:04 PM // 12:04

I see some pug hate. In my experience PUGs are seldom as bad as they are said to be.

One small hobby of mine is to join and help PUGs through Gate of Madness + bonus (for free). So far I have pugged it about 15 times in NM and a few in HM. Only failed twice, but then a retry was successful. I have about the same rate of success doing it with guildies, so I can't say PuGs are bad.

So late in the game most players are pretty experienced, however they may not do things in exactly the same way. So if a party starts out a bit shaky that's just natural. It is the same with any players playing together for the first time.

The reasons I like GoM, is that there are a lot of different ways do that mission, all equally successful, though some are a bit easier or faster. Of course most players have slightly different ideas of the "best way" to do it.

Generally, I have the same experience for other mission/quest pugs. Farming pugs though, are a different story and I really try to avoid those. Many people in a "farming pug" seem to expect everyone to do everything exactly as they are used to. If not, a lot of noob-calling arises.

As for H&H, very few things are unbeatable in my experience. A change of tactic or teambuild often solves occasional problems.

Regards,
Cloudbunny

Red Sonya · Jan 27, 2008, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

We need some formation buttons, perhaps with either pre-made formations (like spread out, front/middle/back-line, crescent, etc.), or even create-our-own formations (such as assigning the teammate numbers to different points around your dot on the radar, and saving that as a formation).

Yes, Yes we need that now. I been asking for something like this in suggestions forum. Of course you have those idiots who knock down every suggestion anyone makes, but, their own of course. I'd love to have a heroes/henchies spread out hot key and formation as well. It puts them in a circle formation using me as the center and within the radar circle of agro. It puts the monks in the very back and casters next with the frontal part of the circle for the melee types or heavier armored casters. (I like to setup all my casters with shields). Yes, we need this badly, hope Anet listens I'm sure the MAJORITY want this.

Phoenix Tears · Jan 27, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaky naughty

I, like most others here enjoy using h/h to play anyway I want, and finding a group is usually a pain in the arse. However in EotN it seems like Anet's putting obstacles that would be no problem for a PUG but would be hell for an h/h team.

For instance look at The Elusive Golemancer quest. In that dungeon where you have to stay in the circle while walking along with that protective golem, with henchies I usually get party wipes because of their inability to keep up, and when one henchie died they all had to stop and res it while the golem was still moving. I finished this with very little trouble by making a desperate run for the end. With a PUG that would have been the simplest part of an already simple quest.

Another thing is the traps that fire jets of flame,ice,or poison depending on what dungeon you're doing. Sometimes you can even walk around the traps, but the average henchie will sometimes walk into it and if my Talon Silverwing or Zho walk through it they'll cast healing sig or troll unguent effectively killing themselves by standing in the trap.

In HoS Cyndr the Mountain Heart, the dungeon boss took me 15 seconds to kill with a PUG, which I was with because h/h teams seemed to do everything they could to wipe, while when I used henchies Pyroclastic Shot should've been more properly named Anti Henchman Shot. It's common knowledge in even PUG's to spread out but with henchies even when I micromanaged they still seemed to die too quickly. It also didn't help that Cyndr always spawned too far from Budger Blackpowder.

The best example of anti-henchie dungeons would be Catacombs of Kathandrax. With the rolling fireballs and firebombs. Despite this using Pain Inverter worked to my advantage and I still won. Sepulchre of Dragrimmar is similar to this except with water magic instead of fire. Yes I brought Herta on both of these, and no ward against elements doesn't mean I always uber pwn any boss using elemental dmg.

Some of you are probably gonna call me a noob for using bad h/h builds or something like that but I almost always use Sab's builds unless the dungeon needs specific builds.

when you really get party wiped THERE, all your problem is your massive lack at skill playing this game >.>

quit whining, become better playing the game.
Only Noobs have problems with those traps....for wtf can you FLAG your heroes and henchs >.<

Marverick · Jan 27, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Everything you mentioned can be done with H/H, albeit some are a bit tough. The Golemancer mission is actually one of those things that are easier with H/H than with even one other teammate. The reason for this is because the H/H will stay glued to you the whole time, and follow your flags. Other players more often than not won't, and may even be misguided by lag, thinking the worker golem is somewhere it really isn't.

I did the mission 3/4 times with other players, and always had a few deaths there, making for a party wipe so we'd res to the other side. Everytime I do it H/H, I have no problems at all. As long as you stay directly in front of the worker golem to slow him down, you don't even need to flag, the H/H stay with you. You can easily make it to the other end safe and sound.

The others just involve some careful flagging and spreading out, though I do wish we could somehow make the henchies spread out, because they will still tend to die by AoE. We need some formation buttons, perhaps with either pre-made formations (like spread out, front/middle/back-line, crescent, etc.), or even create-our-own formations (such as assigning the teammate numbers to different points around your dot on the radar, and saving that as a formation). Would also be nice to enhance the H/H AI a bit more to scatter automatically from AoE, but without over-aggroing nearby groups.

If you stand in front of the golem, the golem will stop moving, yes, but the circle will keep moving forward by itself.

arcanemacabre · Jan 27, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

If you stand in front of the golem, the golem will stop moving, yes, but the circle will keep moving forward by itself.

That only happens if you have lag issues, and when it does happen, the golem is still 'technically' in the center of the circle, and you can still bodyblock it, even if it 'appears' to be stuck elsewhere.

Destro Maniak · Jan 27, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Anet wanting people to play their MMORPG with other people? How ridiculous!

Yea I agree you even tho you are being sarcastic Im saying the same you do SERIOUSLY. ,